Navigating Volunteer Leadership: Fostering Growth and Confidence in Ministry Volunteers | Season 5: Episode 9

Have you ever had a team of volunteers but had no idea how to help them develop? Should you provide training for them? If so, how often and what in the world do you teach them?

That’s the kind of challenge Kirsten Knox and Brian Lawson address head-on as they unpack the journey of shaping volunteer leaders in youth and children's ministries.

Transcript

Brian Lawson: 0:00

Youth Ministry Institute Original Podcast. Welcome to the Making Sense of Ministry podcast, the podcast designed to help you lead well in your ministry, transform lives and impact generations. I'm Brian Lawson, back again with Kirsten Knox hey, kirsten.

Kirsten Knox: 0:18

Hey everyone.

Brian Lawson: 0:20

And we are here today to talk about something that I think many people have struggled with, especially early on in the ministry, but I still think some people are uncertain about at times. So, kirsten, recently I was with a group of youth and children's ministers and one of them pulled me aside, and this individual's been in ministry for about a year or two at this point in time and said I don't know how to develop leaders, I don't know what to do with them, I don't, and when I do get them together, I don't know what to say to them. And I felt deeply what this person was saying, because I remember many times myself being sort of uncertain, like I could get people in a room, like I could get my volunteers in a room, but feeling very uncertain about what to do with them when they're in the room. Is this, is this something? Do you remember experiencing this, kirsten, early on?

Kirsten Knox: 1:15

I do. I remember thinking, well, now what right, like the organization piece, felt a little easier of getting them together. But then you're like, and now I have to say something of value because they've taken time to be here.

Brian Lawson: 1:29

Yeah, yeah, and I think that's part of it. Like you got to, like I always thought I want them to walk away feeling like one that it was important that they were there and it was good. Two, that they felt inspired and look at this brilliant thing that we put on for them and they're super trained now and they know what they're doing. And maybe that was just way too much pressure on to think somehow that I had one training session with them and now they're going to be the best youth or children's ministry volunteers of all time.

Kirsten Knox: 1:59

Yeah, it was going to change everything right. Yes, yeah, and I think for me. The other was I thought, even when I would think about things I want to train them on, they always felt too simple, like, and I have realized that some of those what seem like bottom shelf or simple things where the tools that they needed to feel successful. So, yes, I'm with you, you feel all the pressure and then you're like them getting together and having community and conversation, feeling supported and then also having some practical things, tips and tools. It's really what they're looking for. They're not looking for an aha like it to change their entire life in that two hour training session. But I do think you feel the pressure of now I have to do something. It's got to be good. What is it?

Brian Lawson: 2:46

Yeah, so today's episode is all about the why we develop our volunteers, the how and then the what. What do we do with them when they're in the room? And so that's kind of what we're going to talk about today. So, kirsten, in your mind, why is it important that we are seeking to develop our volunteer leaders, whether they're Children's Ministry or Youth Ministry, whether they're small group leaders, or maybe they're a Sunday school classroom leader, or perhaps they even provide snacks for us? Like, why is it important, in your mind, that we are developing the leaders?

Kirsten Knox: 3:19

For them to. I think it's important because we want growth is important. We want them to grow as people, but also as leaders, but also we want to create a culture that is unified and communicates what we want, and so developing them helps them to do that, and for us to be able to do that consistently with them, and they need support. Like a lot of them have right, this may be their first time or they may have been doing this for a long time, but they also oftentimes, I think, working with children and students can feel intimidating, it can feel scary, it can be confusing. And so being able to develop them and helping them to have confidence because when they have confidence in leading, they tend to stay and they enjoy it.

Brian Lawson: 4:06

Yeah, and I think we forget how, how many of our new volunteers come in terrified.

Kirsten Knox: 4:12

Yes.

Brian Lawson: 4:14

Terrified of the young people. Terrified of what if they've messed it up? Terrified of the parents. Terrified if they don't know enough about the Bible to even be doing this. I mean just across the board, so many of them come in scared.

Kirsten Knox: 4:28

Yes, I recently had a new volunteer that started and after his first night and he was just coming to hang out to kind of get to know us and see like he had a couple roles that was more you know to observe and after he's like I just didn't know what to do and I felt intimidated to start conversations and I'm like all of us have felt intimidated, like if you felt intimidated and we're like I'm unsure you are, listen, we've all been there. This is common. And then one of my other volunteers is like yes, and I've been doing this for two or three years and sometimes I still feel that way. So like just to give permission that yes, welcome.

Brian Lawson: 5:04

There was a study done recently that talked about what.

Brian Lawson: 5:07

What brings employee satisfaction.

Brian Lawson: 5:09

So this is really talking about the workplace and talking about actual staff members, but I think it could be true about volunteers as well, that employee satisfaction and tenure was not necessarily just the employee feeling appreciated, but what actually was the higher contributor to satisfaction and staying was feeling a sense of progress, that they were progressing, that they were growing in some way, that that actually was the biggest factor in a person enjoying their work and staying.

Brian Lawson: 5:40

And if they don't, if they don't feel that progress, then they eventually burn out, leave, get tired, want to do something else. I think the same is true with our volunteers. So when we are developing the leaders, not only are we strategically helping the ministry because we need to be replicating ourselves as much as possible as leaders so that we can pull out of some spaces of leadership but also we are helping them as individuals feel a sense of progress, a sense of growing, a sense of learning and development, and that becomes meaningful and therefore I think it makes them stay longer, also makes them care about the ministry More maybe than they did before not that they didn't care before, but it just increases that level.

Kirsten Knox: 6:21

And I think it adds value to them of saying I see how I'm growing myself and that's valuable to them, right like I think that progress makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure I would have always Impointed that and thinking about what is that satisfaction? But I that makes complete sense to me, that yes, I feel good about myself when I'm growing and learning and that adds to my confidence that I can do this well and that I can learn how to do this.

Brian Lawson: 6:47

Yeah, so when we think about this, I was, one of the big questions that this person had when was talking to me was like how often Should they meet together and how do you do that when everyone has super busy schedules? You know, I know that I tried over the years many different ways of meeting different days, different times, different length of time we met. I tried Meeting once a month, twice a month. I tried all different types of Meeting spaces and part of the problem that I had was when my volunteers came, we already had students there on campus. We already had young people on campus, so I couldn't just pull all of them out to have a meeting Before our program was because all of the young people were already there, and so that created another layer of challenge for us. Yeah, I think you're navigating.

Kirsten Knox: 7:40

Anytime you're trying to navigate people's schedules, you're like how's this gonna work? And things that I have, things that has been helpful to me is thinking about when they're already at campus, like ministry nights to me. I know there are people that do that. Well, like they trained before after. That has never been something in my experience that I've been able to pull off in my context. So always looking for a different day. So I think, contextually, you really just have to know your culture and your people and there are multiple ways to do that.

Kirsten Knox: 8:09

I would say, more than anything, consistency is important and finding that. But we oftentimes, in one of the churches I worked at, we did it after Worship on Sunday morning, so we did lunch and then we did a training and so I'm like you're already here, how do we not add another night that you have to come or another Saturday that we did that, whereas currently in my setting we Pick a different. We do Thursday evenings and each month we pick a different one based on everyone's schedule. So it's a little smaller, so it has a little difference in how we do that. But I think part of knowing your context helps you to do that. But it is hard. Yeah, to find a day. I I did the same thing eventually. Eventually, I landed on.

Brian Lawson: 8:50

I needed to do it when you're already on. Well, they're already on campus, because I had the highest attendance of the volunteers when I did the training and so I Did a few different things. So, beginning in August, like early August, I would do a day retreat. This was like a Saturday and it would be, you know, like nine to four or something in that time frame, so it was an all-day thing. That was the one Really big day that we got together to cover a lot of material and to do a lot of team building and those sorts of things. Then every month after that we would meet once a month During one of our worship services. So it was during the second worship service, which for Many of my volunteers was actually the Sunday school hour for them, now, not everybody that was on staff at the church.

Brian Lawson: 9:37

I was at love that idea. I kind of took some heat for it, but but I think it was. It worked best because the leaders were important and this was an important part of the ministry was developing them, and so we would meet during that. What would be Sunday school hour when we were on the same day? We would meet during that. What would be Sunday school hour, one of the other worship service hours Once a month for just about an hour or so.

Brian Lawson: 9:59

We usually would have a small lunch as well, or snacks during that time also. And then we'd have a Christmas party in December, which was not training but it was still development, because it's about community, developing a community with them. And then we would do the same thing kind of thing in the spring, but I would not do a full day retreat the rest of school year until they were off in the summer. Then we do it again. So that's how. So we met monthly, essentially with a couple bigger Things in the middle, but not a lot because I didn't want to be asking too much of them.

Kirsten Knox: 10:30

I think talking to them and saying what would be a good rhythm, right, I think consistency and having their input and, depending on your context, that can be different, but I also think training, as well as what you did like, being able to have some time to play together. Recently, our volunteer team I had a volunteer who has done a sound bath. Have you ever heard of this, brian?

Brian Lawson: 10:52

A sound bath. I've heard the name, but I have no idea what it is. You're in like a bathtub and you just play some music. You would think you could do that at home, right?

Kirsten Knox: 11:02

Right. I was like I had visions when she said I had visions of what that looked like. But no, it's this room and I mean there's real science behind it and it's a therapy of healing. So you go in this room and they play all these different instruments around you and you lay on a mat, so it's an hour. You get comfy, you have a blanket, has a pillow right, Like can you relax, and they play all these different types of instruments around you and it's like feel afterwards, you feel like you've had a massage.

Brian Lawson: 11:30

Okay, but let's be real here. I would absolutely fall asleep almost immediately.

Kirsten Knox: 11:35

So Well, one of our people did. So that's fair. They say that can happen and that's not all bad. But I guess I'm like you paid for this. I don't want to sleep, but that can happen.

Brian Lawson: 11:46

That's like sleeping in a movie. I mean, I've definitely slept in a few movie theaters before, so that's true.

Kirsten Knox: 11:52

So, yeah, I think having that but I mean I was like everyone got interested. I'm like this is different. So sometimes having creative things can be fun, but feedback from your people help understand that right, your team of being able to say what is that? So all kinds of things, but playing together, doing things fun as well as training. I think that rhythm is important.

Brian Lawson: 12:11

Yeah, and you can even do a sound bath, if you want.

Brian Lawson: 12:13

Yeah, you know I've done escape rooms, we've gone and played putt putt together, things like that. But the Christmas party we had every year was at my house. It was not elaborate, I mean, we just had a meal together, I had gifts for them, we had a fire and we did s'mores and stuff like that. Like it was very simple. But it was about developing the leaders by bringing them into my personal life and my home and making that sense of community, which was really important. I wanted them to feel like they were growing in their relationships with one another as well.

Kirsten Knox: 12:49

And I find that's probably it Oftentimes. Why they volunteer and even stay is because they enjoy the people they're serving with, and developing that community is valuable. Yes, I think keeping it simple we put too much pressure on ourselves. They want to get together. I want to have some fun. Those things are valuable for them to feel part of something bigger than themselves.

Brian Lawson: 13:15

Even landing your dream ministry role, or engaging with a community of other youth and children's ministers as you learn practical tools and enriching insights together. Whether you are looking for your next ministry job or you are looking for ways to grow your skills as a leader, we have opportunities for you. Head over to ym Institute, comm, to learn more. And now back to the episode. So let's talk about, like the what.

Brian Lawson: 13:48

Okay, so this is probably Even maybe the harder part for for many people, especially who are newer.

Brian Lawson: 13:55

What do I actually go over with them when I have an actual meeting? So we're not, we've already done the play and and that, but when I actually have a meeting, what does that look like? So the very first thing that I think of is in that session, I want them to feel like I've given them a tool they can actually use In their small group or in their setting, whatever their ministry looks like. So one of the things the habits I did was I would find a small game that is easy to set up, maybe it doesn't require a lot of materials and we would play it together as a group, partly because, yes, it builds fun and team, but also because then they walk away saying oh, I've got this great little game that if I need to fill five minutes, I've got it and I've done it and I know how it works and I feel like I can use it. So that's a very simple thing for me. That, I think, is what goes into the meeting Is is a very simple resource that they can use.

Kirsten Knox: 14:50

Yeah, given them that time and I think the practical part is important and creating a structure of your training time. I remember when I was first trying to figure that out I was like what do we do? We oftentimes eight. That was a part of it. So I'm like I want community building as a piece of that. I want a training, a practical component, and then also Do some business like what's coming, because I also want to use that Pete, that team, as a think tank of ministry and let them help problem solve some of things we were encountering.

Kirsten Knox: 15:20

And so I feel like those things were important.

Brian Lawson: 15:24

So give them space for feedback. Is that what you're saying? So? Yeah, you've got a coming to talk about, and you want to talk through what that could look like.

Kirsten Knox: 15:31

Yeah, so that we're they have input right, we're doing all this together, versus feeling like I have to do it all, which I think we feel that pressure, but it's pretty limiting in our growth and capacity. So being able to do that I mean things that I think topics like your core values, those are important to be able to train on, developing those and maybe, if you Don't have them, developing together with that team but then also being able to train through those, also Like volunteer, when I leave, how do I know I'm successful? Like defining the winds for them of the night in their role, so they see that it's more meaningful, whether they're a small group leader or even if they're coming to serve dinner. I want them to know, like what are some of the ways you win in serving dinner? That is much bigger than just serving food.

Brian Lawson: 16:22

Yeah.

Kirsten Knox: 16:22

Being able to do those. Those are some of the things that I think, again simple, so you talked about your core values.

Brian Lawson: 16:31

We had our mission statement or core values, and I don't know if they hated me for this. Eventually I took our mission statement and I made it puzzle pieces and I did the same thing with core values. So every meeting they had to put the mission statement back together and I would change the puzzle and have a shape, so it wasn't always the same, just so they would remember it. And they both loved, I think, and hated that all at the same time. But another thing I also used to do was especially when we got to a certain point where we were seeing a lot of kids, but we weren't necessarily seeing them all the time.

Brian Lawson: 17:02

So you might see a young person once a month or maybe twice a month, and sometimes for a volunteer that's hard to remember the name.

Brian Lawson: 17:09

So I would actually print pictures of the kids without names and then I'd give them a list of names and see if they could match up the names with the pictures. And so I would have, I would give like little prizes or little things to try to help them learn and memorize the young person's name, because that was really important to us and I think whatever ministry you lead, that is really important for you to try to get as much of your team to know the names of the young people. So that's another simple thing that you could add into all your meetings as well. And then I think about the other content, the other things I want them to think about. How do they welcome a student? How do they have a conversation with a young person? How do they ask good questions that are age appropriate to the young person, like, how do they know these things? So role play is also a thing you could do with your team about those kinds of situations.

Kirsten Knox: 18:02

Yes, I think all those right are helpful. The other thing, rita, if there's the ministry book out there that you enjoy being able to read that together now I say that because I'm like and that takes energy and time that you're reading the book, so you have to be to me. Our team is doing that. It's helped us me to be accountable and reading those, but then you're working through that together, so there's sometimes you can do that. I mean those just to think what are some of the simple things that make your night run well and how can you help empower them in those spaces.

Kirsten Knox: 18:36

The other thing, I think to ask them what parts of what we do is scary to you, what parts of what we do do you feel like you don't have the tools and the resources to do well, let them tell you areas where they see gaps and where they need to learn and grow, and then you can put that as a part of it too. So I'm like you don't always have to come up with all the topics. They probably can tell you places, or you observe, look at your team and see where are some of the gaps that I need us to move into to be able to minister, well to our children and our students. So, thinking about just observing where some of those things that you need your team to lean into a little bit more and to be able to train, so there's lots. I mean like lots of things, but I still think every time thinking about it you're like now, what right?

Brian Lawson: 19:23

Yeah. So the other things I think about is there's lots of helpful things already out there, you know. Find a TED Talk that is about the age range that your group's working with, or about how to practice empathy well, or there's all kinds of videos that you could show and then just discuss it with the group. That's a little less pressure on you because you don't have to bring the authoritative content. You just have the conversation and wrestle through it with them. Some other things I think that are important to talk about is if you have safe sanctuaries or child protection policy like. You need to be going over that with them at least once a year maybe twice a year.

Brian Lawson: 19:59

We also had emergency procedures, so hopefully your church or your ministry has some kind of emergency procedures. And what happens in a fire? What happens when somebody gets injured or hurt? How do you, how you want your volunteers to handle that? What happens if there's an active shooter on campus? How do you handle those situations? So we had that as well. So we would go over those things a few times. I don't ever think we especially the emergency ones, I felt like we always could have gotten better at. But you know, just some of those things too are also things that we can line up for. So, Kirsten, we've got just a little bit of time left. What is any last thoughts that you would say that when it comes to the what or the how of developing our leaders?

Kirsten Knox: 20:46

I would say do it, do trainings with them and be consistent at whatever you do. So, like I just think we as ministers have a lot going on and it's easy, especially if we feel intimidated by that, for that to fall off our plate or for us to give all the reasons of why it won't work scheduling all the things, and we can create excuses that feel really good, feel justified. But I'm like you we need to be supporting them well, and so create, start somewhere. Just take a first step. So if you've never done it, schedule one right, do it and then develop a consistency that helps your leaders to be able to lean on that, and then they can schedule that in their calendar. So I'm like go do it.

Brian Lawson: 21:33

Yeah, that I always say, Kirsten. I always tell you this that consistent B level content is way more important and successful than A level occasionally. So, like when you're training your volunteers, your youth, your children's, it is better to meet consistent and give them you know B level, even B minus level training in your mind, rather than home runs every single time. It's better to do that consistently than to have like one training a year. That's a home run. That's not really going to get you where you want to go. So some level of consistency together will make a huge impact.

Brian Lawson: 22:05

And I do think as we, as we train and develop leaders more, we get better at it and we learn, and you will as well as you, do this more often. But the key is just start doing it. Just start somewhere and I think you'll start to see a difference in your leaders. Well, friends, that's all the time we have. If you enjoyed this episode or any other previous episodes, we asked that you would leave it a rating and review and share it with others in ministry. It helps them and it helps us continue this podcast Until next time. I hope we've helped you make sense of this thing we call ministry To learn more how we might guide you towards success in youth or children's ministries. Head over to yminstitutecom.